Religion
Ben Stein and The Descent of Man = quote mining
I am preparing some slides for The Enlightenment Show which we are shooting next Sunday. Mark and I saw the movie on Sat. There were about ten folks in the theater, (noon showing). I will talk on the whole movie later but first everyone should see this. (Steve Mirskey and John Rennie at Scientific American first pointed this out) I think it is easier to see in the two pics below.
In the first slide, I am showing Ben Stein’s voiceover as he was walking to Holocaust sites. Ben states the quote and then reveals the vile author as CHARLES DARWIN before going into the horror areas. (He doesn’t reveal the source as The Descent of Man perhaps in hope that we won’t look it up?) The quote is surprisingly missing a lot of information. In a way, I think Ben is practicing in his own form of Holocaust denial. He won’t look at the racism for what it was and instead he turns on science. Ben is an economist and he went to Yale so surely his scholarship would be excellent? Either he is a complete fraud or he is incompetent by blindly relying on his ideological producers and not checking their sources. The very next sentence and paragraph says the exact opposite of what they are trying to imply! Darwin thought it would be overwhelmingly evil to unprotect the weak and it would be against our most noblest nature! Stein and fellows are fraudulent and are praticising propanda not that unlike the Nazis… Shame on you Stein. (This is available on http://darwin-online.org.uk/ Search for asylums) Click on the pictures to enlarge them. I added the formatting to show what Ben cut.
BTW: None of this says anything about science or gives any credibility to intelligent design. It does show what a great thinker Charles Darwin was….
This is from Jacob Bronowski - The Ascent of Man. Science is admitting we don’t know everything and is anti-dogmatic by being grounded in evidence. I saw this on PZ Meyer’s Blog.
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Tags: Bein Stein, Charles Darwin, darwinism, evolution, expelled exposed, Expelled the Movie, Holocaust, intelligent design, Jacob Bronowski, Nazi, Propaganda, Quote Mining, racism, social darwinism, The Ascent of Man, The Descent of Man, The Theory of Evolution Discussion
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Anti-Evolution Film Misappropriates the Holocaust
From http://www.adl.org/PresRele/HolNa_52/5277_52.htm It speaks for itself….
New York, NY, April 29, 2008 … The Anti-Defamation League (ADL) today issued the following statement regarding the controversial film Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed.
The film Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed misappropriates the Holocaust and its imagery as a part of its political effort to discredit the scientific community which rejects so-called intelligent design theory.
Hitler did not need Darwin to devise his heinous plan to exterminate the Jewish people and Darwin and evolutionary theory cannot explain Hitler’s genocidal madness.
Using the Holocaust in order to tarnish those who promote the theory of evolution is outrageous and trivializes the complex factors that led to the mass extermination of European Jewry.
The truly important message is that evolution as a scientific theory has been all but abandoned and discredited by serious scientists throughout the world.
While Darwin and his theory cannot explain the Holocaust- the exlanation can be found in the reality of good vs. evil, light vs. darkness. There is a spiritual realm which science cannot accept and will remain a mystery to the person who is not ‘born again’.
Nice post Andy. Mr. Bronowski was very eloquent and concise.
Dave, if you would be so kind, I was wondering if you could tell me where you’ve learned that evolutionary theory has been discredited.
Also, am I correct in reading that you are equating “science vs. religion” with “good vs. evil”? I just don’t see it as that black and white or absolute.
Dave,
Let me first deal with your incredibly arrogant and ignorant argument from authority fallacy. What scientist where? Serious scientists? You have to be more specific. (I know of a few hundred questionable and religious motived scientists from the discovery institute, AIG, CRC.)
Take a nice look at Project Steve for the counter argument: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Steve
The “truly important message of film” is it is propaganda and they didn’t show one form of evidence for ID or even define ID. The discovery institute says ID isn’t religious yet the film is all about religion…. That cannot be good for DI. I found it incredibly funny when they tried to make fun of Richard Dawkins who was putting forward the only serious idea of ID that he could think of was aliens might have started life here…. (Isn’t this ID with “agent” ). Which is it agent or God?
If there is evidence for ID bring it on. Why isn’t that in the film? Instead they show how complicated cells are with questionable copyright tactics. This is the “Argument from Personal Incredulity; I cannot explain or understand this, therefore it cannot be true. Creationists are fond of arguing that they cannot imagine the complexity of life resulting from blind evolution, but that does not mean life did not evolve.”
(http://www.theskepticsguide.org/logicalfallacies.asp )
You are obviously Christian. I took a quick look at your page… The film purposely left out all the clergy and scientists who do support and love evolution such as Kennith Miller and Francis Collins. They don’t let religion stop science instead it brings it closer to their idea of God. Lying is not what Jesus would approve of anyway. Spend some time on http://www.expelledexposed.com/ and go the religion and science section. (You can read that even the few scientist they highlighted)
For me, evolution (The film incorrectly calls us Darwinists when the theory of evolution has more mechanisms now than natural selection) didn’t make me become atheistic towards the Missouri Synod Lutheran Church. Reading the Bible and learning about all the other religions did. If one actually reads it without being spoon fed how to read certain sections and therefore one cannot ignore the morally disgusting sections, they are more likely to become non-theists.
Stein had an interview Hannity & Colmes prior to the release of the movie. I have put together my own analysis of the interview here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgdvdDXZog4
This is my first “original” video so I hope you enjoy it.
Joey,
I like the clip a lot.
I am no fan of “weasel” news so I don’t watch Hannity and Colmes because Sean is so arrogant and cocky. Alan is only one on that network that I am aware of that is sane. He keeps Ann Coulter in check when he is allowed to speak….
In this case, I don’t think it is fair to call Alan Colmes a tool. I think he was just reading the prompter about the movie and that was not his take. He fought Ben a little on the Nazi propaganda. (He should have fought harder, but I think Sean has a button that can shock Alan when he gets out of line…)
Check out this interview with Alan and Richard Dawkins. I think you will be surprised: http://richarddawkins.net/article,2360,Richard-Dawkins-on-The-Alan-Colmes-Show,Fox-Radio-Richard-Dawkins-Alan-Colmes
Joey, if that’s your first “original” video, then you are a natural.
I think I’ll subscribe to your vids. Keep ‘em coming!
[...] July 1, 2008 by andyscathouse Hopefully, our promotion of critical thinking and science training will help protect our community from nuts like James Dobson. Here are three examples of the Reverend quote mining research and science to promote his ideological position against homosexual families and gay marriage. This confirms Christopher Hitchens’ statement that one may commit any crime or say anything under the title reverend; moreover, we are enlightened own how certain religious thinking may lead to complete immoral and bigoted behavior. Dobson must think it is ethical to lie for Jesus. (We saw Ben Stein lie for Yahweh). [...]
We have our own mini Kroptos challenge our page. see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kryptos
Any one here have software for this? The best way is to count the frequency of letters and see if there are any obvious transpositions. For example, normal distribution of the English language letters has e used the most and letters like q in a lesser amount. (The sample is pretty small though). Or have I given this way too much thought already?
Maybe the post just left a religious nut speechless yet they decided to sputter meaningless hate or sarcasm?
it’s called comment Spam and I’ll remove it.
I like the idea of an encrypted message…. but you are right.
[...] of natural selection and common ancestry of all life. Ben Stein and/or his producers blatantly quote-mined Darwin, not unlike the negative politics Joseph Goebbels used. How did your role come about? Ben [...]
Posted by Dave Macy | April 30, 2008, 9:25 pm
The truly important message is that evolution as a scientific theory has been all but abandoned and discredited by serious scientists throughout the world.
While Darwin and his theory cannot explain the Holocaust- the exlanation can be found in the reality of good vs. evil, light vs. darkness. There is a spiritual realm which science cannot accept and will remain a mystery to the person who is not ‘born again’.
almost a year after this was posted, i read it
. what you didnt say was–darwin has mainly been all but abandoned by those who have theological degrees..allowing them to put “dr” in front of their name? please provide a list of actual scientists who have abandoned darwins theories, and i will happily provide one showing those who agree with darwin.
there isnt any mystery to being “born again”, as you have been indoctrinated to believe. the reality is when is some people are going thru difficult or unpleasant times in life and needs a crutch to lean on, someone to thank for the good in life and blame the bad on, they re-find an oft-used reason during that moment. and bonus–they are convinced they are just a bit more special automagically by their choice to believe in whichever religion fits their needs! whats the mystery about that? i respect that religion serves as a reason/explaination for many people who do good things and treat people in a good way. but the whole idea that religion makes one special to anyone other than their co-believers and those they donate to…that is in direct opposition reality AND to what their own bible teaches about the sin of pride.
It’s terribly interesting that proponents of the theory of evolution are so terribly scientific, and yet also so terribly intolerant of anything that might cast doubt on a theory? Evolutionists, Darwinists, Non-theists, Single-progenitor-geneticists, whatever you decide to call yourselves this week, are so quick to decry the horror of ‘immorality’ of religion.
Funny, no one on threads like these speaks to the horrors of atheism.
By the way, if religion is just an aberrant ‘meme’ or ‘genetic virus’, where exactly did you get your means for deciding what is evil? What exactly is the morality of Darwinism? Or maybe there isn’t one?
@deb fort wayne:
Evolution has been all but abandoned by “serious” scientists? I would be interested in seeing a citation to this effect since modern biology and medical research are founded upon evolutionary theory.
@Deb Fort Wayne-
I agree. Dave Macy said that last year and the theory of evolution is still here and stronger than ever.
I checked out Dave’s website last year and he was connected with James Dobson’s dominist type of ministry. That is the radical hot bed of unreason coming out of Colorado Springs and trying to take over America. This isn’t what I call an “unbiased” source.
@jrodmc- It is funny that you are calling us intolerant. What about the heart of this post? Ben Stein used obvious deception either knowingly or ignorantly. Either way, I am sure this has been pointed out to him and he should apologize for lying. Isn’t religion supposed to be the beacon for honesty and morality?
I will look at your “evidence” but right now there is a whole website dedicated to the fallacies and misdirection in Expelled in both science and religion. This post is pointing at one small part of it. Is that intolerance or honest fact checking? Check out http://www.expelledexposed.com and let me know where any point on it is wrong.
If by “horrors of atheism,” do you mean healthy societies like the Scandinavian countries and intelligent people like Gene Roddenberry and Carl Sagan? Of course not, you point to top down forced totalitarian regimes such as Stalin and Mau. Those were not free societies and I could argue that one cannot be forced out of religious beliefs and they were still very religious but yes mass killing happened in secular regimes, too. Okay so mass killing is universal and there have been big body counts from many regimes.
I care about what is true and doing the least harm possible with empathy and the golden rule. No deities are required for that and none of those religious or secular killings were justified…
Is religions track record clean of blood and fraud free? Just look around today with faith healers Benny Him, Peter Popof and the long history of fraudulent relics in the church. I will also say as I have many times one may be religious and still accept evolution such as Ken Miller and Francis Collins. Is that an intolerant position?
I will point out that science is a process of learning about the world through methodological naturalism. There have been frauds in science but it was not creationists who saved the day. It was the scientific method.
(As a side note, Expelled didn’t try to blame Charles Darwin for Stalin’s killings because they were using the pseudoscience of Lysenkoism instead. Ignoring and politicizing science is a bad idea. The movie superimposed pictures of Stalin but never brought it up because it would be laughable. The Hitler connection is laughable too but it takes more time to research it.)
(I edited the post to reflect Deb’s post- It is amazing what a few strokes of the delete key can do. Again, I apologize for misreading Deb.)
-Andy
@Andy D. and Neural -
Whoa guys, hold on. Deb is in agreement with you - she just posted sort of awkwardly. Go back and read her post - everything prior to “almost a year after this was posted…” should be in block quotes. She quotes Dave Macy, then refutes him.
(Not that it matters to the argument, but Deb is actually one of our original members - Andy, you remember Deb, right?)
I can’t, however, speak for Trolly Trollerson.
@ Deb - Holly crap. I apologize. I read what I saw to based on Neurals and Jrodmcs early posts… It should be directed at Macy and jrdormic and definitely not our Deb! I will edit it to change who it is referencing…
Again I apologize and I am embarrassed it was a mistake.
-Andy
Deb:
Just for your info: Use italic tags (<i></i>) or blockquote tags (<blockquote></blockquote>) to quote material.